I got sent this link kindly by Caroline a couple hours ago
Thanks Caroline. Caroline had a pup from us last year from Dolly's litter called Dotty and is Treacle's sister. I replied it and being lazy thought rather than write up about this again, I would share the reply I send to Caroline. It makes me mad that the real issues are missed and are so easily distracted by smoke screens and mirrors.
thanks for that. Read a simlar article not that long ago about the chap who thinks he created cross breeding, who marketed the cross between the Labrador and Poodle as the Labradoodle, his mistake like pure breeding was looking at breeding selectively rather than holistically because he wanted a Labrador that moulted less as a helping dog for people with allergies, so he just saw the non-moulting of the Standard Poodle but did not think, they also have lots of problems with hip dysplasia like Labradors, so crossing these to breeds was not going to help this problem, that's why like any breeding when you cross you look at each breed as completely as possible, if they both suffer with a certain problem at the same level, it would be unwise to cross them. You now see more Labradoodles using the smaller Poodle, miniature because these make not such a big dog and less problems with hips. The Cockapoo has been bred in the USA going on towards 60 years and known by the name Cockapoo, so the chap who thinks he invented cross breeding can sleep at night.
Cross breeding has always been here but what really gets the pure brigade is the price, that people will pay as much for a cross as a pure, believe me if you only paid a couple hundred pounds for a cross/mixed dog they would not be so upset about it. The KC are stinging because all over registration is going down each year, which is their main revenue. They had just under 224'000 pups registered last year, so that's over 3 million pound in pure breed pups registered, let alone the other £8 most breeders also pay for an individual official KC pedigree to leave with each pup. That's down by around 6'000 registered in 2013 but that is them losing around £90'000 just in pup registration and that is just the pup registration, that does not account for the amount of breeders that on top of registering the pup will also order a KC official breed pedigree to leave with each pup at £8 per certificate and other spin offs they provide when selling pups. You can see that they might not like any thing that might muscle in on that turn over. Its about time everyone tried to do what's best for dogs, not what's best for them. The problem is puppy farming and puppy farming has moved most of its breeding from pure to cross, so before they where producing unhealthy pure breeds, they now produce unhealthy cross breeds. They breed to the market and the market is mixed breeds at this time. If tomorrow it could be done and it was crossing cats with dogs , that's what they would do. Everyone including the KC seems to not mention a pure breed that is going through the roof at the moment that has lots of serious health issues but the KC happily take registration of them with no prove of the breeder being reputable (The Assured Scheme is only voluntary and accounts for a small number of breeders breeding pure pups and registering them with the KC) is the French Bulldog, the registration for these dogs as pups in 2004 was only 350 and then in 2008 it was 1'025 with the KC but has now gone from a few hundred 10 years ago to now being 6'690 pups registered for this breed last year more than now than Cavaliers and these dogs are actually more unhealthy than Cavaliers. Most of these French Bulldogs will be coming from the puppy farm market. The KC seem to forget about these figures for a very sick pure breed. Caroline Kisko's comments on cross breeds with Poodles is laughable. Caroline Kisko (most of the KC crew have little knowledge of dog anatomy out of selective breeding and having a standard to direct them, genetics or any thing generally out of the pure breed ideology) is not a Poodle expert or either an expert on cross breeds, so her comments are just from hearsay and not from experience. As I keep both I can vouch that the Poodles coat is harder to look after to the same level as a cross breed. Poodles coats are very hard work to maintain and the breed discription of them on the KC website bares this out. Poodles coats are like sheep fleece and matt much esier than a cross with a dog with a less thick coat. If you don't look after a dogs coat it will matt whether pure or cross.
The statistics and that is what hybrid vigour is, a number game and it supports that a dog of mixed/cross parentage will be less likely to have an inherited health condition, its not saying every dog that is mix/crossed is not going to be unhealthy. For me cross breeding is not about making a new breed but about trying to breed healthier type dogs and my goal is to breed a healthier type small spaniel eventually. The cross with the Poodle is one step along the road and seeing as the Cavaliers ancestory goes back to a type extinct now that was called the English Water Spaniel and was a small curly coated water retrieving dog and was believed to have Poodle in it, using the Poodle is not that far in the wrong direction. If you look at paintings of spaniels from the 1700's you will see much more eleghant heads with longer noses not far off the Poodles type head.
Sorry to go on but the issue is bad breeding not pure, mixed or cross. Cross/mixed breeding to the enlightened should be seen as a tool in the tool kit for breeding healthy type dogs. Other species bred by human's such as horses and all farm animals, use cross breeding along with pure and run registers along side each other for pure and mixed, why can dog breeding not get its head around this instead of trying to out each other at any juncture as the baddie, cross, pure and mixed breeding should work together if they truly care about dogs not their own egos. Funny the KC has been around only 120 years or so and in the dogs evolution that's less than 1 % of their evolution and they have managed on average to reduce the pure bred dogs genetics by 40% variation from its common ancestor the wolf, that's frightening and is even more in some of the low founder breeds, at that rate, around another 120 years the domestic dog could almost be extinct. Street dogs in third world countries still have 95% genetic variation of the wolf.
Thanks again for this article, sorry if I've rambled on a bit. Instead of getting into arguing about climbing the mountain on the Daily Mail comments, I'm trying to climb it, so I won't be banging my drum commenting on this article but just watch the poison pour out below it.
Hope you are all well and give Dotty a cuddle from me.
I do go on a bit and believe me I'm even worse in the flesh but I hope this has got a point over !
A bit of an add on as the earlier response was off the cuff and thought I would go into a bit more depth with the KC's comments.
It seems the KC and what Caroline Kisko say are showing duplicity, as they happily do take registration of cross breed pups from breeders on their Activity register and without them having any health tests. If you are on the Assured Scheme with a pure breed and breed a cross breed litter of pups to conform with the rules of the scheme you have to register all breeding stock and offspring with them, they do not have an official cross breed register, so they tell you to register cross breed litters on the Activity register and you pay your £15 per pup and you do not have to have any prove of health tests. Caroline Kisko is careful though and puts the word approve in front of allowing cross-breeds and it could be argued that although they take money off breeders to register their cross breed pups on the Activity register that this is not approving them, a bit like the thousands of pure breed dogs they register every year without any prove of the reputableness of the breeder or that any health tests have been done. It would be interesting to get a figure from them on the numbers of Assured Breeder cross breed pups that have been registered on the activity register, so far.
The bit about temperaments has no science behind it and the cross she mentions between the German Sheperd and Seberian Husky and her reasoning for this being a bad cross is flawed because one is a hunter and one is a sheperding dog, she says, "If a cross of these sees a rabbit, which is it supposed to do ?", like she thinks pure breeding really is that mind controlling and thinks like a human it will be debating what it is, she really is over anthropomorphising that cross breed dog, I now have an image of this poor dog on a psychiatrist's couch, its a dog Caroline Kisko, and it will try to kill it like any dog. There must be some really mentally messed up pure dogs out there if you go by this reasoning because the other days I saw a Border Collie chasing a rabbit at one of the farms I milk at but by Caroline Kisko's reasoning that Border Collie must have mental issues because its a herding dog not a hunting dog, Border Collie move away from the rabbit now, you have mental issues. Lol.
Any person who works sheperding breeds know the herding instinct that you use in sheperding breeds is from the hunting instinct because wolves herd animals as a hunting technique, so her arguement is none standing and shows a lack of deep understanding of dogs and their evolution and how we get them to do certain jobs. All dogs will hunt/herd if given the chance at a young age or around dogs that are already doing this, obviously some are more tuned to it than others. I have known of Border Collies from the best working parents not being very good at herding, to someone years ago telling me about a Cavalier that herded on a farm as good as the Collies, he lived with Collies and picked it up, herding/hunting. Caught Toby in the chickens the other day and he looked like he was herding them but I know he was hunting them, luckily I stopped his herding/hunting them. Lol. One of the hardest things to teach a dog is to herd stock away from you, as its there natural instinct to herd animals towards you because this is the dog recreating the hunting ambush technique that wolves use.
The problem with this cross is the same as the individual breeds used in it, you get people selling them to people who have not got a clue what they are taking on. Shelters are full of German Sheperds with mental issues and Husky's can be found with mental issues, in general a lot of large dogs can be found in shelters with mental issues, so the issue is not the crossing, its the right home and nurture for these types of dog whether pure or crossed. If you buy a big energetic dog whether cross or pure, if you are not understanding what you are taking on, that is the problem not that it is a cross.
“The greatest pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him, and not only will he not scold you,but he will make a fool of himself, too.”
― Samuel Butler
Me with Bumble and Blottie, waiting patiently to be unleashed, November 2018
Hello, I am Jane, you might of guessed, I love dogs. We are situated in the North Devon countryside, England, United Kingdom. Our home is occupied by my husband, David, our children, pack of dogs and me.