We have a couple photo's tonight and an update on one of Ysobel's pups who left us two weeks ago now. Olive was the only girl in the litter and Fay contacted me by email last Sunday to tell me how things where going and below are the emails and conversation we had over the last week. I have put it on the blog tonight to show how I feel a breeder should approach a problem with a puppy once its left their care and how a new puppy owner should hope a breeder should approach a problem once the pup has left their care.
What helps greatly here is the fact that Fay waited for a pup and before the pup was even born a rapport with the breeder (me) was already in situ. I cannot stress how important it is to be patient in getting a puppy, never let a breeder push you into rushing your decision on having a pup from them. Getting the right puppy from the right breeder must be more important than, "I want a puppy now !"
The emails start with Fay making me aware there could be a problem with Olive.
To: Jane Howarth
Sent: Sunday, 20 October 2013, 8:32
Subject: Re: Olive
I can't believe we have had Olive a week! In one way it's gone very fast, in another it's been a week so full it feels a lifetime ago. Olive has settled in very well, and is great travelling in the car, on the lead, and is learning commands already. Her toilet training is excellent with only very few accidents so far. She is quite a character! When at her most playful she runs wild, round in circles barking, grabbing at any toy, piece if clothing or shoe (usually while someone is wearing them!) at the speed of lightening.She loves playing with my mom's toy poodle, Millie. They goad each other into chasing which us lovely to watch.
Our boys Freddy and Max laugh at her too, especially when she licks their hands. Olive loves to steal anything that falls from their high chairs, we regularly find spoons and beakers in her basket, and she pulls their socks from their feet if we are not careful!
You can see Olive is very relaxed and loves her Bagpuss toy.
We had her checked over at the vets and they said she was very healthy though has a slight heart murmur. I just wondered if all of the pups have this due to the cavalier in them?
When I recieved the above email I rang Fay, some things should be done with the spoken word and this was one of those times. We discussed the vet telling her that she had heard a slight murmur on her heart. My vet had examined this pup twice in our home both time recording her examination and on both examinations, no murmur was heard but this does not mean that Fay's vet had not heard a murmur, as with a growth spurt sometimes pups can develop an innocent murmur which goes with time. I told Fay, "I suspected it would probably turn out to be an innocent murmur and would hopefully be gone when she visited the vet to have the second Lepto 4 vaccination at twelve weeks old." Fay expressed that the vet was a young vet and that she had not filled her with confidence but had explained about innocent murmurs in puppies but had not told her to contact the breeder about this because if something like this is picked up by a vet you should go straight back to the breeder and if a ethical breeder a plan of action should be discussed if the pup has still got a murmur on a second examination.
Olive is a well grown pup and Fay did say she was a little stressed in the vets, so this might of made it hard to really listen to the heart or even cause a slight murmur to be heard and when a vet hears the word Cavalier they can start seeing bogeymen. A plan of action was discussed with Fay that if the heart murmur was there still at 12 weeks I would pay for Olive to have further tests to rule out it being any thing other than an innocent heart murmur and if it came to it would of had Olive back with a full refund or the other option if Fay wanted to still keep Olive, if she had a heart problem and if the insurance did not cover her I would still give a full refund and Olive stay with her.
Also Fay had a day when Olive decided to have lots of pee accidents which she had been being very good on the houstraining, I suggested it might be just a blip or even something might of just irriatated her and caused mild cystitis or vaginitis which is seen sometimes in female pups around her age and normally resolves itself before you get them to the vets and I said if she was still doing lots of little pees when she sees the vet again to mention it to them.
On the 23rd October, Olive had her second Lepto 4 vaccination and the vet checked her heart again. So on the 24th I sent an email asking Fay how this examination had gone. In the email I included a link from a vets site about murmurs which might help her understand more about murmurs heard on a puppies heart.
On 24 Oct 2013, at 20:34, Jane Howarth
just contacting you to find out if all went well at the vets yesterday. As I said on the phone, if your vet can still hear a murmur on Olive's heart and if it has not resolved by six months old I will pay for her to be examined further to know if just an innocent murmur or something else. I would of rung you but I have got a sore throat and prone to going into a coughing fit if talking for to long and I also thought it might be good that you have in an email what I said on the phone about the murmur heard by your vet. Found this article on a vets site http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/heart-murmurs-in-dogs/3912 it is about heart murmurs in puppies and might help and hopefully put your mind at rest. Hope all is well.
Kind regards Jane
Thankfully Fay answered the email quickly and put my mind at rest.
From: Fay Shoesmith
To: Jane Howarth
Sent: Thursday, 24 October 2013, 20:57
Subject: Re: Olive
You have been on my mind to contact you but things have been very hectic here (even more than usual which I thought wasn't possible)The vet couldn't hear a murmur this time which is great news. To be honest I was struggling to let myself get attached to Olive and I think it must have been because of the murmur, probably self preservation. So, I'm really pleased she couldn't hear anything. She suggested she may have been a bit dehydrated when she went in last.Thank you very much for your information. Knowing I can ring you is a great comfort!
Regarding the peeing in the house, Olive is now back to normal, and if she has an accident in the house it's a decent one, and because she hasn't been let out in time. She seems to have stopped the little puddles every 10 mins which we are also pleased about.
Thanks for that Fay, Great News !
I know what you mean about not getting to attached. Things where a bit up in the air for you, sorry about that.
Glad the peeing has sorted itself out, just a little blip. Now you just need to get on with getting attached to your Olive.
All the best and I'm here if needed.
Thankfully all turned out okay and no murmur could be heard on the vets second examination. Although I felt pretty sure it was an innocent murmur it did not make me worry any less or I suspect Fay worry any less. If I bred a puppy at 12 weeks old with serious heart problem as MVD it would seriously make me consider not breeding any more. I would be doing a lot of reflection.
Ethical responsible breeders will try to do as much as possible to insure that your puppy will come into your home causing the minimal stress to the puppy and you, but sometimes even with the best care taken the road can slightly undulate and if this happens you will really find out what kind of breeder you have got your puppy from. I regularily have people contact me for advice with their pup due to the breeder being unable to be contacted once they have the pup home, so when getting a puppy its a good idea to quizz the breeder about what happens if a problem occurs once the pup comes to you. Funny thing is I'm hard to get hold of to get a pup from but once you have a pup I become easier to get hold of. Well, I hope that's the case.
Winter is approaching with each day becoming shorter. The milking I do is now done in mostly the dark hours more than light. The multifuel burner which does all are heating and hot water is now in constant use again and a real fire is a lovely thing in the home but it does lose some of its ambience when your the one taking the ash out and draying the wood in every day during the winter months but as my mum says, "its good to get two yets ( "yet" in Devonshire dialect means heat ) off your wood."
Now the pups have all left my attention has returned to health tests and MRI scanning in particular. This Thursday will see me trekking up to Bristol with Smudge, Primrose and Belle for scans. Belle will be the first cross breed we will of scanned, so really interested in seeing what has occured in that first outcross. Fingers crossed its all going the right way.
We are going to get Reggie our Poodle scanned and Henry our Brittany will be scanned as well. This seems a logical thing to do as Chiari Malformation can occur in all dog breeds but it is seen as above normal rates in many of the Toy breeds and as more breeds are scanned we might even see more breeds across the board that have Chiari malformation bred into them to fit into a required breed standard look for the head. Unfortunately a breed starts to see real problems develop in the breed from a defect and only as it becomes worsened with each generation that is only when it seems they will look to do something and in many cases it will be to late. It would be good to see breeders from all breeds looking at MRI scanning their breed on the BVA/KC scheme especially if the breed has had its skull changed dramatically in a short time and falls way from what the dogs ancestors, wild wolves skull shape is. As you can tell I sometimes drift into fairy wonderland and breeders MRI scanning through a logical thought process to improve health with the possibility they might be recording a negative for the breed in the long run, what will I come up with next. Imagine if God in the bible was a typo mistake and really it was dog, that would easily explain having your own guardian angel and yes, they will watch you on the toilet, but not the dogs attitude to woman, no , thinking about the attitude to woman it must be God not dog. Lol
Drifted a bit there. So it is logical to MRI scan Reggie and Henry because it would be good to know that you are using dogs with out any evidence of Chiari malformation. Poodles, Toy and Miniature have been recorded with Chiari malformation and a few are being found to have Syringomyelia, so I think if you are trying to outcross with the Cavalier to improve things for them, what ever you cross with you should be MRI scanning them to and now with the BVA/KC MRI scanning scheme costing with grants being given to vets in the scheme around £360 to £400 to be done down from being up near and over a £1000 per dog if a breeder is truly trying to improve the Cavaliers lot with crossing both parents need to be scanned regardless of breed.
We also have Smudge and Primrose booked for a heart check with Cardiologist Vet Mark Paterson at Abbotkerswell Referral Centre on the 13th November and at this time we are thinking that Smudge will go to Reggie in December when next on heat and Primrose will go to Reggie in around March time, so looking at two Cavapoo litters for 2014. Belle and Jessica turn two the end of the month and we have decided to leave breeding from them until the beginning of 2015. Two litters a year is plenty enough work and with breeding to try to create a spaniel type from three breeds you need time and to proceed with patience.
Toby our pure Cavalier boy will turn two soon like his sister Jessica and although he would like to romance the ladies now he is going to have to wait a little longer and I tightly cross my fingers in hope he passes his health tests especially for Syringomyelia. He is such gentle lovely natured dog and a proper little hunting spaniel. It is amazing to watch him leap out over our patio wall and he goes for the corner which is the highest point at around four foot, most dogs have the ability to jump high but it takes a brave dog to jump high especially if missing the jump will envolve falling back on concrete slabs. Its amazing to watch him take off around two metres from the wall and clear it with ease. If he meets a fence to high and it has wire he can climb it, he climbs it. He's a good size frame for a Cavalier standing a good 13 inches at the shoulder but he carries only muscle, not an inch of fat. He carries a lot of muscle in his hind quarters which explains the fact he can jump so well. He's like a rasher of wind (Devonshire dialect for skinny), when he fills out he will make a big, little dog.Lol
Must finish up now, milking tomorrow morning, so early to bed for me tonight. So for 2014 we hope at this stage to breed two litters both first cross Cavapoos f1. Once health tests are in we will confirm if these two litters will go ahead and then we will put this up on the Future Litter page. Must get Smudge, Primrose and Reggie booked in for a eye examination as well. Always enjoy my visits to Tavistock and a butty at Sourton and a walk over Dartmoor with the dogs. Its a hard life here in Devon. Lol
Just noticed I labelled a photo wrong but can't get back into them to correct it. The photo of Dolly in the dog bed with Primrose, that is not Primrose its her Mum, Ysobel.
27/10/2013 12:48:41 pm
Sorry to hear of the terrible time you have had with Olive... So glad all is now ok with Olive & look forward to reading updates on Charlie's sister!
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“The greatest pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him, and not only will he not scold you,but he will make a fool of himself, too.”
― Samuel Butler
Me (Jane) with Puddin' and Teagol, waiting patiently to flush a patch of kale, December 2019
Hello, I am Jane!